“Asso! Asso! I play an Asian better than an Oriental.”
One of greatest movies is “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”. Yes, I was in love with Audrey Hepburn and that movie did it for me. I first saw it when I was in high school. Then I saw it again during college and this time, it pissed me off. For those of you who have seen it, you may know what I’m taking about. Mickey Rooney plays a Japanese and mocks a heavy accent with buck teeth in Japanese attire. He typified Charlie Chan. It was meant to be funny but it wasn’t funny at all. It is so profoundly offensive and annoying. If you watch it now, it’s just aggravating. It was so highly offensive on so many levels. Granted, times were different in the 50’s but dude…watch it again and your jaws will drop. It was common back in the day for white people to play Asian characters in movies. Marlon Brando did the same thing. And before then, white people played black people. And before that, men played women in the Shakespearen days.
You see, I hate it when Hollywood does not remain true to the ethnic and culture factors. Most recently, you had both Zhang Ziyi and Michele Yeo, both Chinese play Japanese characters in “Memoirs of a Geisha”. Hollywood today does this shit all the time. To them it doesn’t matter because white people think we all look alike. Why couldn’t they get Japanese actresses to play these characters? This is the very reason why I lost interest in wanting to see this movie. Why doesn’t Hollywood respect and appreciate the differences and the uniqueness of the culture and ethnicity of each Asian race? I mean, thank God, they actually hired real Koreans in “Mash” and “Lost”. To me, because I’m Asian, each Asian culture is so diverse, so different from each other, and so unique. Maybe they can’t tell what we are and we all look alike, but I can tell and it annoys me when I’m watching Law & Order and there’s fucking Thai actors playing a Korean grocer. Until Hollywood and mainstream media starts to respect and recognize and showcase each Asian culture as unique, the majority whites just won’t get it and they’ll continue to say, “All you’ll look alike”.
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Hollywood does the same to European nationalities as well. i.e. Jude Law playing a legendary Russian sniper, or Mel Gibson as a Scot patriot. It’s the way Jews view the world. Asian people all look the same, as do white and black people. I’m just happy to see Asian (male) leading roles.
Contro,
You can tell? Really? Have you taken the face identification test at
http://www.alllooksame.com/exam_room.php
When I took it I only got about half right.
Oh, man. I only got 9 out of 18 as well. 50%. I swear some of these people look like they can be of any country.
Well, I agree with Contro, but Hollywood definitely isn’t a beakon for authenticity.
I did slightly better with the cultural/food identification tests.
What kind of comment is: “It’s the way Jews view the world?” Don’t be a douchebag.
Where do you draw the line between acting and insensitive casting? Nobody’s angry they didn’t use a real autistic person for “Rain Man” instead of Dustin Hoffman, for instance, right?
I think if it were a deliberate and systematic substitution going on with Asian ethnicities in films, I’d be offended. But Hollywood is Hollywood: they make more business decisions than artistic ones.
I saw The Fast Runner, the first film made almost entirely by Inuits. I’m telling you that didn’t help make it any better, at least not for me.
Couldn’t you say this casting sensitivity is an extension of the PC phenomenon?
I would draw the line at horrificly typecasted caricatures where viewers can feel no sympathy at all – instead, just derision, horror, and disgust (Mr Yunioshi, Long Duk Dong). I really don’t care about racial or national “miscasting” because I’d like to see a time and place where Asian American actors can play leading roles about “normal people” where you would always find a white or black actor. John Cho’s character in “The Singles Table” (an upcoming NBC comedy) is like this, and he’s really funny, without needing any played-out stereotypical asian references.
Hollywood was founded by Jews and is still dominated by the Jewish business culture. It’s why you can find demeaning caricatures of every minority group and nationality in movies except for the big-nosed “kike.” The late Marlon Brando said this, not me.
Are there any Asian films with Asians playing white people? It would be interesting to see what they do with make-up, etc.
Have you watched “Lady and the Tramp” or “The Aristocats”? Unless they’ve been cleansed for modern consumption, they make an offensive portrayal of Asian stereotypes using cartoon Siamese cats.
Also there is a prejudice out there against Siamese cats. I had a wonderful, sweet Siamese who died Monday. He was the most well-behaved cat ever, but people always say, oh, Siamese is a mean cat or ornery or something.
http://www.alllooksame.com/
But seriously i think all white people look the same lol. German or dutch? I can’t tell.
There’s this asian american B-movie called “The Forbidden Warrior” where the typical racial roles are reversed. It takes place in ancient Cathay with all asian lead roles with caucasians playing the minor roles like the wise, old teacher and the comic-relief porters.
I agree with Contro SAM but at the same time, several factors have to be taken into account such as:
1. Star power, – they used 2 well known asian actresses for the roles in Memoirs of a Gheisha
2. Maybe they couldn’t find anyone else talented enough for such a big budget film
3. No one is gonna give a fuck anyway except for chinese people in the US cuz there’s only about 3.5 million chinese people in the states.
Another related topic I’d like to talk about is fake boobs. Howcome no one seems to mind if actresses get fake boobs and then claim thatthey are real? How will we ever know? I’d be damn sure upset to find out if I saw a fake titty and found ut later that it was made of silicone…
Fucking poser titties…
I think we have a celebrity.
DEAsianguy: I’m onto you, Mel. C’mon, get off the bottle. The anti-Semitic stuff stinks. Didn’t you Meet the Fokkers? Haven’t you ever seen a Mel Brooks movie? Jews make fun of themselves more than anybody. And yes, there are a lot of Jewish businesspeople in Hollywood, but so what? I think you have a personal grudge. Did a Jewish guy steal your SAF?
DEAsianGuy: “Hollywood was founded by Jews and is still dominated by the Jewish business culture. It’s why you can find demeaning caricatures of every minority group and nationality in movies except for the big-nosed ‘kike.’ The late Marlon Brando said this, not me.”
You may have not said it originally, but you’re repeating it–so don’t shirk away from it like you’ve no responsibility. It’s just dumb. You sound like drunk Mel Gibson. Don’t give me this Jewish agenda conspiracy shinola. Demeaning caricatures are a reflection of the audience and society than the studio heads: if people didn’t accept them, movies wouldn’t make money, and the studios heads–Jewish or not–would be out of business.
I only got 6/18 on the alllooksame quiz.
White people don’t give a shit if somebody German plays somebody Russian. There aren’t that many white people who clearly look one nationality or another. We need a white-people alllooksame quiz. Europeans are largely mixed-race in the sense that the Romans spread themselves over a large portion of the continent, the Vikings did to some extent, etc. The ‘Scots’ were a group that originally came from Ireland, and the Celtic group extends to the western part of France, etc. I’m sure there’s a lot more. Besides, here in the U.S. we’re all mixed as hell, and proud of it.
So why do you guys care so much about Chinese playing Japanese in a movie? Japanese should be fucking honored to have Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Zhiyi playing geishas. I think all these objections about who plays what are political. It’s already established that there isn’t a physical difference between Chinese, Japanese, Korean. The Japanese sometimes like to pretend they’re a different race, but they’re not. So why does it matter if someone Chinese plays someone Japanese? Unless it’s about mannerisms or something that westerners simply wouldn’t see.
Big China: I don’t think most men care whether boobs are fake or not. That always surprised and disappointed me. You seem mostly concerned with whether you are going to be taken in. Why? What does it mean to you if the boobs are fake? I’m curious. I guess you are assigning virtue to the best real boobs. How is that a virtue, when it’s all up to chance, anyway? Personally, I have a lot of respect for the flat actresses who remain flat in defiance of the implants trend of the last 25 years. And then there are actresses who are totally honest and even proud of their fake boobs. Does that get any points with you, Big China? Personally, I think fake boobs are an abomination except maybe for mastectomy patients. Women ruin their health with cosmetic surgery, and then the presence of the boobs in the media as well as their increasing presence among regular people skews people’s ideas of what’s okay and makes women who want to stay natural feel more pressured.
Hey, we asians weren’t the ones who gassed them, so the Big Guilt doesn’t apply to us. Using the Holocaust as a persecution badge of honor…fuck em (see what it’s like being a colored guy in this country). I’ve witnessed enough jewish frat boys prank-calling chinese restaurants and wearing demeaning t-shirts to not give a shit what they think anymore. Perhaps I have an innate fear that someday in this country the shit is going to hit the fan for anyone yellow. There are way more jewish media personalities (i.e. Howard Stern) making fun of asians and spreading the fear of the yellow peril on broadcast than there are anti-semitic chinks ranting on internet blogs like me. And you’re right Mrs. Robinson…making fun of asians in movies is/was something american society generally accepts. Still, a supposedly liberal, racially-sensitive group in positions of power (such as being studio executives) should be a little more sensitive to ethnic portayals in their movies.
The thing with Mel Brooks movies and other movies like Meet the Fokkers is, it’s Jews that get to make fun of themselves, like blacks making fun of themselves on “Friday”. Only blacks can call themselves the N word but it’s open season in the mass media to make fun of the chinks and gooks. Me love you long time! Huge difference.
For the most part, caucasians have been indoctrinated with guilt from a history of racism, such as slavery and anti-semitism. They’re a little more sensitive from the start, which makes forming relations alot easier. Not Jewish people…they have a certain arrogance from having suffered through centuries of anti-semitism and the Holocaust. Since they’ve been shit upon for so long, they really think they can do no wrong. I may sound like that too, but I’m not in any position of social power as an asian american.
One racist role played by Mickey Rooney, and my childhood was a living hell… Hollywood is powerful…
Hey you “Asian Americans” like to distance yourself from people in Asia, you think you’re better than “fob”s, you criticize the governments of your motherland and praise that of the US, you want to show the Aglos what a model minority you are, so this is what you get.
Welcome to Amerikkka beiatch!
Motherland? You sound like a tool.
I don’t think we Americans no longer have the moral perch to be criticizing foreign governments anymore. Even before Bush, I always got annoyed whenever I hear about China’s human rights abuses and whatnot. Governments are all alike, with an elite ruling class and somebody getting the short end of the stick.
Anyways, us AA’s are only talking about being made fun of in the mass media, which really hasn’t been *that* harmful. Unless we have towels wrapped around our heads, it’s not like we’re experiencing vitriolic hate and racism out on the streets.
Yuck, that first sentence was a grammatical freakshow.
DEAsian, I think you had a bad experience with a few Jews and are generalizing it to Jews in general.
First, I always include Jews under ‘Caucasian/white,’ just so you’ll understand the way I’m using it below.
I’m sorry if you had or have seen others have a bad experience with frat boys. Frat boys are one of the ultimate evils–ignorant and aggressive. Commandos? Hell, let’s send a contingent of the worst frat boys and lacrosse players to North Korea, Afghanistan, Iran.
Anyway, my belief is that your experience with racist frat boys, while they may have been Jewish, has more to do with their being white–i.e., I can see any group of white frat boys doing the same thing. It sounds like maybe you went to an Ivy League school where there happened to be a lot of Jews and you got a taste of a bad group of them. One bad apple doesn’t make all apples bad. Most Jews are very liberal and vigilant not to be racist. I think what you’re experiencing is the fear/hatred of white men (whether Jewish or not), who are used to having power handed to them by society and have become complacent and are finding that they really are not superior when others are given a chance to excel. Their sense of entitlement is offended, and they no longer cut it; the meritocracy is eroding their traditional power.
Could it be Battle of the Model Minorities? This week we pit Jews against ABCs….
Hey, Contro, how about starting a new thread about the boobs topic initiated by Big China and continued by myself, above. This will require you to spend a lot of time looking for just the right picture to go with the new thread…think you can handle it?
Oh man, where to start? On topic: Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are very distinct in appearance (as well as culture, but that’s another subject altogether). The Japanese and Koreans I know living in China are treated as much as foreigners as I am.
That said, lots of Americans DON’T know the difference, because they haven’t been exposed to many Asians. Just as I can recognize Swedes and Italians, because I know lots of them, but the rest of Europe’s just a blob to me.
Memoirs of a Geisha was a crappy and racist movie in the first place, and would have sucked even with an all Japanese cast. That it cast two Chinese and a Nanyang in the leads just adds to the larger joke. Come on, they even made the American born actresses speak with an faux-Asiany accent! Incidentally, Geisha got banned in China, and was very controversial, because it depicted Chinese women have sex with Japanese men.
Overall, the Jews are fabulous people, like any demographic there are a few duds, but that’s no excuse to spew anti-Semetic bullshit folks. Frat boys and jocks of any race/ethnicity, yeah Asians included, are generally asses. I would agree, though, that Jews can be quite clannish and self-righteous. I’ve never met any who were unpleasant towards East Asians, but they can be incredibly racist towards their fellow Semites. Just as otherwise really cool Chinese become rabid racists if you mention Japan or Taiwan. I dated a half-Syrian guy in high school, and some of the Jews were such fucking Nazis about it. Recently, a friend’s sweet little Jewish grandma, force feeding me bagels like a Chinese mom, started ranting that all the Arabs should be rounded up and killed. Yikes.
I really hate the media infused conflict between Japanese and Chinese populous…That’s why I haven’t gone to asia in a few years…
Divide and conquer again….what a buch of automatons…
Some AAs tries to perpetuate it here, but there are many AAs are well informed enough not to let it happen.(hopefully)
Many recently immigrated folks with deep ties to asian media programming are doin’ it though…I watch the J news on the net once in a while but the triggers are everwhere….
I hear visiting and recently immigrated J’s talk about C’s and personally feel alienated by C’s I come in contact with in public that seem recently immigrated or seemingly not americanized. I can’t tell sometimes because I’ve seen some ABC’s give “dirty versions” of english. (never seen it done to asians though that I know of for sure)
Little Japan bashing is healthy as long as it pertains to 2000 and beyond…..but many of the same people who do turn around and suck up to caucasians ever so subtley…Yikes.
I walked into a chinese restaurant in SF with the wrong set of people running the place.
All the whites got served first even though I was there before them, then the chinese customer who walked in waaay later had orders in before I had to flag a waiter down. He wasn’t very friendly to me but I thought nothing of it. Then he goes to the next table and starts getting all suck up. Guess who sat there….
I didn’t leave a tip.
Well, i scored 10 out of 18. Number #12 was the cutest one and that dude with the ponytail had that PhD student look. in seattle, many Chinese and Koreans have assumed that i am their nationality and often talk to me in their language (i’m JA btw). no big deal. come to think of it, i guess my dad could pass as Korean, my brother Taiwanese, and my sister Chinese. my mom looks very Japanese.
zhang x: i don’t believe all asian americans criticize our “motherland governments.” but also, criticizing governments is not a bad thing. we americans criticize our own government all the time. and we don’t go to jail for it. dissidents can sleep in their own beds. i found your comments were too generalizing.
many of my asian american friends have visited their “mother” countries out of curiosity and to understand our origins. i lived in japan for 3 years to get firsthand exposure to culture there. i don’t have anything against fobs but they have to stop wearing their polo shirt collars up. snap!
Same thing with china bashing Japanese assholes who suck up to whites makes me puke.
Talk about a japanese playing korean. Do you know how many times i almost got killed (litterally) getting mad at some Jap for saying something nasty about koreans (violence in japan gets outa control…)
I get to say Jap because I’m one…haha.
Mango’s famous repeat posting…..No stones so far…..Thanks guys…
Here we go…The belly of the beast.
http://www.umich.edu/~aos/index.html
Mango, if you think I was China bashing, you are one sensitive dude. Read again.
“Not sucking up to whites” is a common theme in your comments. Do you see wherever you live that most Asians and AAs suck up to whites?
Never came across my mind my friend, that you said anything of the sort….
Do you see wherever you live that most Asians and AAs suck up to whites? NEVER.
That is why I take a stand in life as AA.
I was talking about greasy heads in Japan Whom I had the displeasure of spending some social occations.
I couldn’t imagine anyone who frequents here would suck up to anyone…
Not a small number of non AA asians suck up to white people just because they are white. We all know it. We’ve all seen it. We’ve all hated it.
I have white friends whom I consider my family. And they the same. That has nothing to do with me hating stupidity and ignorance.
Not us Taiwanese, we suck up to the Japanese.
hey mangohare, if you don’t like the way you’re treated at a Chinese restaurant, don’t eat there. It’s the same thing I tell these f*cking gwai lo when they start nagging and complaining about Chinese restaurants.
redelk, do you think I care much about how you or anyone else here found my comments? Over there you have censorship of speech from the government but freedom of speech from the citizens. Over here you have freedom of speech from the government and censorship of speech from the citizens. Let me know if you’d like me to provide clarification and/or examples.
Many years ago I used to live under the illusion that Asians can all get along, live like brothers, and help each other. I must’ve been on ‘shrooms at the time. I dated a very intelligent girl from China who told me to have a look around. These Asians that you call your brothers are looking down on you just as any gwai lo would. And then after paying more attention to interactions with Taiwanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc. I realized, f*kkin’ a she’s right. It takes a foreigner (an untouchable low life fob as you great “Asian Americans” think of them) who’s looking at this from an outside angle to make intelligent observations as to what’s going on.
So after that in my weekend youth athletic program, I only work with mainland Chinese. Got nothing against anyone else and I got nothing for anyone else. And you know what, there’s no more squabbling within the group and the progress is phenominally better.
These other Asians or “Asian Americans” … I don’t owe them dick!
(and this forum has fully confimed that)
Shanghai Meimi, since you say C J and Ks are distinct in appearance, I would be interested to see how you score on the test http://www.alllooksame.com/exam_room.php
DEAsian, AAs do experience severe consequences from discrimination in the US. The murder of Vincent Chin and the false imprisonment of Dr. Wen Ho Lee are a couple of well publicized examples. There are plenty of other less publicized and recent examples.
zhangxiaoxiong–
It’s not nationality that divides people–it’s human nature that does so. Asian Americans can look down on fobs just as badly as upper middle class black people can look down on blacks from ghettos.
Even within your mainland Chinese group, there’s bound to be squabbling along the lines of age, gender, sexual orientation, class, etc.–basically, like everywhere else.
So, you can shutdown and be exclusive with superficial differences–like most people seem to do–or be more accepting while understanding our tendencies to be self-centered, hateful, greedy, and so on.
Sinner, I kept trying to and the site wasn’t loading. Finally did. I got 10/18 on the face test – but that one’s unfair, it has a lot of people making funny faces, plus some Dongbeinese who are closer to Japanese than Chinese, and lots of Korean and Japanese who look more Chinese. I know, they’re making a point there, but still. I got 12/18 on the art test, got all the Chinese artists right (lots of my pals’s work featured there, both in art and other photos, you’d think China would be bigger but no) but I can’t differentiate Japanese from Korean art, or much else, that well. 11 on the food. Apart from the hot Korean guy I got the ‘Meimi’ name from, I’m sadly ignorant about Korea.
Go figure, all the China photos are by a friend of mine. How random.
Us/them mentalities are unhealthy no matter how construed. Ultimately, all of us are islands of one, but happiness and humanity comes from connecting with people, and the more you can the better off you’ll be. From a cultural standpoint, we should all be taking the best and rejecting the worst from our “own” cultures – as well as every other culture. Our race, gender, nationality and class are pure accidents of genetics, the sick jokes of god/fate if you believe in those, why be defined and constrained by the dumb shit you can’t help in the first place? I’d rather be defined and constrained by the dumb shit that is my own doing.
All,
Wow – I guess the picture and the title of this post didn’t draw me to it so I kind of ignored it. Obviously, the last few posts have been rather “heated” to say the least. I just read through all the posts rather quickly, but it seems a lot of generalizations were made about Jewish folks, FOB’s, ABC’s, Japanese, etc, etc, etc, etc.
In my youth, most of the people I hung out with were ABC’s. Thus, most of time during grammar school/high school, I hung around ABC’s who spoke primarily english. Sure, there were foreigh born students around high school, but I stuck with speaking english to them and they were ok with it.
In college, while there were some ABC’s, I had classes with a lot of foreign born chinese (China/HK), etc. It was a bit of a wake up call in some cases because there were a lot of foreign born chinese together, Cantonese was the primary language spoken. I understood most of it, but it made me uncomfortable because I didn’t feel confident.
In fact, when I went out with some chinese friends and they all got grouped together, Cantonese was primarily spoken. I remember those were some uncomfortable times for a guy who didn’t feel confident in his communication in the language. It was around that time that I really questioned whether I could get along and be friends from “people who seemed so different from me”.
However, fast forward from those long ago college days to 2004. One of those same college friends (who I got along with the best) organizes this BBQ with some of my other friends and whole group of others. All Chinese people I think and mostly foreign born.
For some reason, my “chinese” side of me clicked in. I knew some of the people there didn’t feel comfortable speaking in English. Guess what? My cantonese suddenly kicked in.
It’s been 2 years now since that BBQ and I still keep in touch with some of the people. I suddenly am now very comfortable in Cantonese, even to friends of my parents. I think some of the foreign born people who know me are surprised that I can and will speak Cantonese at any time.
My point is that I opened my mind up and in the end it all worked out for everyone involved. I realized that for myself, when I get into uncomfortable/unknown situations meeting people, I close myself up. I should open myself up and not feel uncomfortable that I am “not like” the group.
Everyone will have their different languages, personalities, ethnicity, etc. Ultimately though, if you get along with other people, it doesn’t matter what your perceived differences are. It just matters that you guys are together and are friends/lovers/co-workers…whatever it may be.
WHEW – Off the soap box now
shit, Meimi, you’re more Chinese than I am.
zhangxiaoxiong,
You sounded awfully familiar….straight out of a biggot text book. You’re right I will never eat at the particular place again. The truth remains that the people there were sucking up to one group and stepping on another because of ethnic group.
What I was trying to do was not to gereralize but to tell a story.
That “looking down on you” rhetoric is the core of propaganda. The Nazzies used it, the American oppression of blacks used it in the media, and now the chinese government use it. It is implanted in people’s minds to creat solidarity. I think when those methods are used I don’t trust the motive.
People and their current behavior aside, how can a Asian look down on big daddy china as a culture.(If you are educated that is)
What you call illusion I call hope. Wish me luck because I’m gonna need it, since there are more people who think like you than those who think otherwise.
Zhang, I for one do not look down at Asians, and I don’t feel that Asian Americans are better in any way. Similar to coach41, I made a big effort in college to improve my language skills so I could get along with native Japanese, and I eventually went over there for 3 years, and met great people. As a romantic, I always feel like I’m missing out in Japanese culture being here sometimes, but I try to keep up by watching tv and reading news. I feel as an Asian American, you have two worlds you’re juggling all the time.
So, I wouldn’t generalize all AAs/ACs as being anti-FOB, which isn’t true. And I agree with redelk’s comments in that any govt/restaurant/anything is fair game for criticism. It’s well-known that many Chinese or Korean restaurants have bad or rough service. It’s no big deal to me, so long as the food is good.
I got 11 on that test. I can’t tell the difference between K and J seems.
6,8,13,14,16 are really hard to tell. Chinese people smile the warmest. Js and Ks have smiles with a little hesitation.
mango … so being looked down on and addressed the situation makes me a bigot?
bicycle thief … I appreciate the courteous tone of your disagreeing response. You stated your point concisely and professionally. Now if only some of the other blowhards here could do the same maybe we’d get somewhere
Z, I was talking about this.
hey mangohare, if you don’t like the way you’re treated at a Chinese restaurant, don’t eat there. It’s the same thing I tell these f*cking gwai lo when they start nagging and complaining about Chinese restaurants.
Smaller version of “go back to your country” talk.
I think you are being the blowhaed no? Read back the sequence of events. Why are you complaining about reactions to things you know to have that effect. You said it yourself. You seem like the arse that came in with a bang.
I don’t think we are not going to get anywhere with you calling some of us blowhards when you stomped on them first, then turn around an priase the civility of someone whom you didn’t stomp on. 5 year olds do stuff like that to deviate a conversation.
Why don’t you admit that you are rubbing somekind of frustration that you have, on some of our faces…You wanna join in and mix well with all of us, then why say stuff like
“do you think I care much about how you or anyone else here found my comments?”
I think my response was quite mild, cosidering the tone you started with…
“Over there you have censorship of speech from the government but freedom of speech from the citizens. Over here you have freedom of speech from the government and censorship of speech from the citizens. Let me know if you’d like me to provide clarification and/or examples.”
Please do. I’m totally curious about what you mean by that.
double negative city…sorry folks..